And we figure, if we start talking about them this far in advance, we'll (maybe?) have agreed on things by the time the
One of the things that comes up, that we still haven't agreed on, is spanking. He sent me this article this morning, and we... got into kind of an argument. There are some things we agree on:
1. There's a huge different between hitting kids and spanking them, and hitting is always wrong.
2. Common sense-wise, there's an obvious difference between disciplining your children, and abusing them, but legally that can be hard to lay out in black and white.
3. Corporal punishment should not happen in schools.
4. Spanking should not happen for any child old enough to have a give-and-take conversation with you.
5. Children shouldn't be hit with objects, like belts etc.
Brian, though, is anti-spanking all around, whereas I think it can sometimes be useful to help a young child remember not to do very dangerous things. For example, when I was a little over two, I tried to run out in the street when a car was coming. My mother grabbed my hand and told me that was dangerous, and if I did it again I would get spanked. I did it again. I got spanked. It made an impression. I never did it again.
In my book, there's a difference between discipline and punishment. Discipline, to me, is teaching kids what is right/wrong, safe/dangerous, acceptable/unacceptable behavior when they're too young to know already. Punishment is enforcing the rules about behavior that they have already learned. The point I made about the article was that, while I understood the point it was making and agreed with a lot of it, every example they used was of punishment rather than discipline.
And Brian argued that those aren't the definitions, looked them up in the dictionary and everything, etc. etc, arguing ensued...
Fifteen minutes later, after much discussion, we discovered we were actually arguing about something we agreed on. It wasn't differentiating between the two concepts that was causing the argument, it was specifically the words I used. He didn't like defining "discipline" and "punishment" that way because those aren't universal definitions. Go figure. Yay communication.
But still, we haven't agreed on spanking yet (which I think is okay, considering we're still a few years from the kids point). Brian is still anti, I am still sometimes.
So, I'm curious where other people fall on the spanking/no spanking.
I know, wildly serious for this blog, but what is the internet for if not for people to give their opinions on things?
So, peanut gallery, what do you think?
I think I only got spanked maybe three times ever. Never very hard. I mean, I'm sure it wasn't pleasant, but it was never to the point of brushing or being hard to sit or anything like that. Mostly what stuck with me was the embarrassment of being spanked and realizing I could've prevented it. So, I'm more with you-- sometimes. Not as punishment, as discipline. I mean, sometimes I see kids out there who NEED a good spanking. You know the type. Parents tend to be a bit lax with the discipline these days, leading to some self-centered, over-spoiled, out-of-control children.
ReplyDeleteby brushing I meant bruising*
ReplyDeleteI definitely fall in the sometimes column. It needs to be infrequent for reasons both ethical and practical. Practically, it just means more if it's infrequent and used to instill something basic and central.
ReplyDeleteI think I may have been spanked a few too many times as a kid... it stopped meaning anything. Far from scarring me, I remember the last time I was ever spanked, it was with a wooden spoon. I have NO idea what I did now, but I remember I started laughing. This made the parental unit angrier and hit harder. The spoon broke. I laughed harder.
Far from scarring, I look back on this and mock my parents now about it. But in all seriousness, from a practical standpoint infrequent usage conveys authority and gets results. It should probably also be discussed and agreed upon by both parents before being done of course. Just simpler that way.
There's my 2 cents.
I'm "no spanking." It's just too easy to cross a line into abuse. I was only spanked once in my entire childhood and that was for running into traffic after my dad told me not to. I have no memory of it, so I have no idea how it affected me. However, I think there are plenty of effective ways to discipline without corporal punishment. I think what kept me in line more than anything was the fear of disappointing my parents, because they were always so supportive and encouraging of everything I did.
ReplyDeleteI'm pro-spanking. I also think there's a difference between a quick swat on the butt or on the hand and the prolonged, over-the-knee kind. The latter I only ever got I think three or four times in childhood, and it was always for something fairly serious, like lying. It made an impression. By age 5, I'd entirely stopped. Spanking's only appropriate up to a certain age, but until that point -- you can't reason with a toddler. You can't use logic or even emotional manipulation on them at that age. A short shock of pain gets the point across. It should never bruise, and I'm against using anything like a belt or a ruler, but I do believe that sometimes the physical reinforcement is just necessary.
ReplyDeleteI'm in the keep-options-on-the-table camp, though I'm not sure I would ever be able to give a kid a spanking myself. Psychological manipulation is just such a better deterrent.
ReplyDeleteI don' mind spanking as long as it doesnt lead to bruising or it being difficult to sit of course! but in muy opinion, some kids need a little pat on the butt to know they did wrong if they dont listen the first time!
ReplyDeleteBut ugh, I dont want to even think about being a parent anytime soon. Haha
<3Chelsea Elizabeth
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